Most were intended for .38-caliber handguns, but any bullet made for either the .38 Special or .357 Magnum can be loaded and shot in the .358 Norma Magnum with varying degrees of success. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. Why the .35 Rem. [/quote]. In its 112-year lineage, it has probably taken more elk than all other cartridges combined. The classic .350 Rigby Magnum load pushes a .358-inch diameter 225-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps for 3,440 ft.-lbs. Compare practically any small bore cartridge (.32 caliber or less) with a .35 caliber cartridge of similar powder capacity and the result is pretty much the same. Thats a question I just dont understand. Rifle Recoil Table. It was verry expensive to shoot, lots of powder and expensive bullets and brass. The .357 Magnum is ideal for light game like javelina and will do for the smaller species of deer and antelope at short range. Mag. Mag. Copyright 2003, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. Mag. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. Heeding the advice of American friends, Kvale worked on what would become the .358 Norma Magnum. Both calibers share the same dimensions of the case head as the .300 H&H Magnum, but have far less body taper, resulting in the same internal capacity in a shorter case. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. The Hornady Superformance load for the .35 Whelen launches a 200-grain bullet at a blistering. The .35 Whelen is a fine elk cartridge. The Swedish firm of A.B. PerH AH fanatic Joined May 8, 2021 Messages 536 Reaction score 813 Location Norway Articles 2 Jun 4, 2021 #5 It will work in this action with ease and will be plenty cheap to feed and use if one simply sizes up 338 brass and goes along thier happy way. In the years since, the .35 Rem. It was recovered in bits and pieces. 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In a letter written to friend Townsend Whelen during early 1920s, Leslie Simpson-- one of the first Americans to become a professional hunter in Africa--opined that the hunting world needed a .35 caliber cartridge . In cartridges, as in boxing, what goes on behind the scenes often determines the outcome. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. The only rifles I can find in production are from Nosler, Remington and CVA. Re: 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Mag. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is at the Streamlight booth at SHOT Show 2023 to go over the Bear Trap light from Streamlight. Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. Norma Projektilfabrik answered Winchesters designs with a pair of their own: the .308 Norma Magnum and its slightly older brother, the .358 Norma Magnum. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's. He never questioned the adequacy of his .270 for elk, nor do I, but he was also a lifelong .30-06 fan and privately conceded its superiority for elk-sized game. But the .416 is certainly not the only cartridge to bear the Rigby surname; read the works of Walter Dalrymple Maitland Karamoja Bell, or Col. Jim Corbett and the .275 Rigbybetter known as the 7x57mm Mauserwill get all sorts of praise. Here the elk offers hunters an advantage because the vital zone, like body size, is at least twice that of any deer. Also as I have a lot of 357 pistol bullets I was figuring on being able to use them as reduced loads/smaller game options in either big 35 cal should I go that route. Follow along to see exactly how. Looks like I'll do a Whelen. and .358 Norma Mag.). Hunting Shack 358NORMA2N Game King 358 Norma 225 gr Sierra GameKing Spitzer Boat-Tail - 20rd Box. Avoid quick-opening bullets, especially match bullets; instead, choose controlled-expansion designs intended for hunting larger game. Layne Simpson did an article on the comparison of the two and it was reprinted in Big Bore Rifles and Cartridge ISBN 1-879356-00-7. Its safe to say that of all the .358 Norma Magnum rifles in existence, there are more custom than factory ones, and this makes it tricky to load for in another way. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, Im not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. The .300 Rem. Looking for previous installments of our "Behind the Bullet" series? Real world, the Norma bitchslaps brown bears and moose as convincingly as the 375H&H. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. I am convinced there are better tools, and theres also that matter of mindset. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. from the 24" barrel of a Marlin 336XLR rifle. The trouble is, they didnt sell. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. This is comparable killing power to the long .375 H&H Magnum with a 300 grain bullet (ME 4331 ft. Any desire to hunt African dangerous game with your medium bore? For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. Compare the Queen of the .35's, the .350 Remington Magnum--the original short (.308 length) magnum cartridge--with the new generation of short action magnums. Although such weight is rare, a big bull can exceed 1,000 pounds. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. I'm looking for a simpler project on this one. The .308 Winchester is a fine elk cartridge, and the grand old .30-06, with a bit more velocity and energy, is better. Shortening the 2.85-inches long .375 H&H case wasnt exactly a revolutionary ideathat little-known .275 H&H so closely resembles the design of the half-century younger 7mm Remington Magnum that its uncannybut with the Winchester marketing machine the concept was brought to the forefront. 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62 - 24hourcampfire We've got you covered. .450 Nitro Express .17 Hornet 7mm STW 6.8 Western .375 Ruger .223 Remington6.5x55 Swedish .416 Remington Magnum .300 Winchester Short Magnum 28 Nosler 6.5 PRC .22 WMR .458 Winchester Magnum .204 Ruger .22 Hornet .280 Ackley Improved .240 Weatherby Magnum .458 Lott.264 Winchester Magnum.348 Winchester.33 Nosler.260 Remington.30-30 Winchester.416 Rigby.358 Norma Magnum.22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. I have never lost an elk, and I do not recall ever tracking one for recovery. From a 12 twist bore, accuracy sweet spots for light bullets include 2950fps with 180 grain bullets, 2925fps with 200 grain bullets, before normalizing with 225 grain bullets at 2900fps. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. As unmagical as that might sound, it's one of the hardest hitting non-magnum cartridges ever. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. it is one nice gun and made for tight places. the problem in this debate is we are crossing over in calibres, which means thrust on different sized pistons. Mag. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. Coming from me, this conclusion may shock you, so let me give you another surprise. But have owned multiple 9.3s and Whelens. They live in steep, rough country, and their long legs cover a lot of ground. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. Id mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. That being said, with much wider availability, and the higher . On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. So, if you have an interest in carrying an ultra-rare cartridge of impeccable pedigree, you either roll your own or have someone load it for you. I am also looking at building a 358 Norma Mag on a model 110 Savage action, formerly a 300 Win mag, and start from scratch with the stock ( bedding and pillar) and make it a tolerable shooter even if a bit heavy. 358 Norma Magnum | AfricaHunting.com is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. All in, it weighed over 11 pounds, which is too heavy. What should the discerning collector look for in a potential buy? By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. .50 Beowulf. With todays interest in long-range shooting, big scopes are in, but powerful scopes add weight. The norma would cost more if I had to open the bolt face. I believe it never will. Campfire 'Bwana. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. Its a great gun for moose and elk, bear and boar, and for bison as well. to achieve its potential. Mag. Still have a 9.3 (so I guess it "won"). Many western hunters annually take elk with 6mms and .25s. With modern powders the muzzle velocities can certainly beat those of the Cordite loads a century ago, especially in a modern rifle. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. it is complicated further by a requirement for different burning rate powders. Any listing you find for H-4895 can be modified by loading only 60 percent of the published minimum to create some very comfortable loads. The case capacity of the .350 Rigby is very similar to that of the .358 Norma Magnum, and the performance is likewise similar. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. Lyman lists 47 different moulds that were available at one time or another, ranging in bullet weight from 70 to 282 grains. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. Hunting Shack .35 Whelen N/A Centerfire Rifle Ammo That load has a maximum optimal range on 1000 pound game (like a big Alaskan moose or brown bear) of 151 yards. The "U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1903," better-known as the M1903 Springfield, has become one of the most popular U.S. military small arms to collect. .50 BMG. Not only that, many different bullet moulds were made for casting .358 bullets in some of the most fanciful shapes. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. Trust me, you could do worse, but youll be hard-pressed to do better! As it was released in the first century of the . It can work in close or at a distance or dazzle you with footwork. Today we have better bullets than when I was a kid. Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? However, the optimum game range of the .358 (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2300 fps) is 240 yards. Publisher of Petersen's HUNTING magazine, Kevin Steele is at the Steiner Optics booth with Alberto Corbetta to discuss the Predator 4 and Predator 8. So it is fair to say that, over the years, .35 caliber rifles at least have caught the interest of the gun and ammo manufacturers, if not the general shooting public. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. 9.3x62 boots 320gr Woodleigh protected points and weldcore round noses out at 2400 fps with RL-17. There are several reasons. .358 Norma Magnum - BallisticStudies.com Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. He, too, could have been one of the greats. With cast bullets, A-5744 and Trail Boss are usually the best choices, although H-4895 is a good powder for midvelocity hunting loads. There is only .007-inch (seven thousandths) difference between the .270s .277-inch bullet and the 7mms .284-inch bullet. Then come the .30s, and now were talking business. Folks who live in elk country may consciously seek a cow for the freezer. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. Head to the range this week with American Rifleman staff as they discuss a trim little repeater from Savage Arms that comes chambered for the .22 WMR cartridge. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. As a result of all this activity, .358-inch diameter jacketed rifle bullets are available in a wide range of weights and styles, from 150-grain semipointed to 200- grain roundnose, all the way up to 310 grains for the heaviest game. SAUM and .300 WSM, with their 180 grain bullets at a MV of 2960-2970 fps, have an optimum range of about 120 yards on 1000 pound animals. The .35 Rem. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. The guide professed to be dumbstruck: I never saw a nilgai knocked down like that, he said, And we use some big rifles here!. For the handloader, as the accompanying table demonstrates, the .358 Norma Magnum provides an almost unbelievable range of possibilities, from loads light enough for gallery shooting to heavy enough. from my E.R. The nearest of any to the .358 Norma was the .35 Newton, which it closely resembles. .470 Nitro Express. But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. THe 35 whelen did have a little more power than the 358. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. a good brush buster and good to 300 yards. Petersen's HUNTING Publisher, Kevin Steele is in the CZ booth with Dylan Rice at SHOT Show to talk about CZ 600 Series Trail rifle. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. There is certainly no lack of .358-inch diameter bullets to choose from but brass is limited. Sure, you can get away with it, especially with todays extra-heavy bullets, but I think its foolish. Hunting Shack 35WHELEN1N Game King 35 Whelen 225 gr Sierra GameKing Spitzer Boat-Tail - 20rd Box. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. The .338-inch fans cite the advantage of the higher sectional density figures, while the .358-inch camp favors the better frontal diameter of the larger bore. Is the .358 Norma Magnum a cartridge destined to make a huge comeback? I have needed to reach 400 yards, but never a whole bunch farther. By Layne Simpson. Mention the Rigby name to any rifle aficionado, and odds are that the famous .416 Rigby cartridge will come quickly to mind, and with good reason; it is an undeniable classic. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. You know the kind with the locking bolt. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. It is easy to forget that the .358 bore comes in an extremely varied range of twist rates from 1:16 to 1:12. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. .35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. These were, primarily, the Schultz & Larsen (Denmark), the Husqvarna (Sweden) and a few Browning High Powers made by FN in Belgium. The .358 Norma can be loaded down to duplicate the performance of either of the two smaller cartridges. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. An elk is bigger than anything most deer hunters have encountered, but theres still a variance; a cow for the freezer isnt much bigger than a very large deer, but a mature bull elk is different. Common loads fire a 200-grain bullet at 2,800 fps (about 3,480 foot pounds of energy), a 225-grain bullet at around 2,600fps (3,380 foot pounds of energy . How it would have done on a live animal is impossible to say. It will kill farther than that, of course, but that is its optimum range. Powders such as IMRs Trail Boss, Accurates 5744 and IMRs discontinued SR-4759 all work with lighter bullets, and sometimes accuracy is very good, even if the gas seal is not. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. What keeps it alive? Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. .35 Whelen: The Poor Man's Magnum - Big Game Hunting Blog As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. My 8mm Remington Magnum was stocked in dense walnut and had a long barrel. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. I wont go so far as to say thats foolish, but theres a major difference in size and toughness between a cow or spike and a mature bull. of muzzle energy. However, that may be changing, or at least the possibility of change may exist. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. Is there a way to find out what year it is by serial #? From the .35 Winchester (1903), .35 Remington (1906) and .351 Winchester Self-Loading (1907) to the later .358 Winchester (1955) and .350 Remington Magnum (1965), there has always been at least one .35-caliber cartridge in use. After ten years of not getting drawn I sold it it was too much gun for most of my hunting. No, its not exactly easy on the shoulder, but its not terrible either. Perhaps, if the word gets out to the shooting public, the born again .350 may finally achieve the commercial success it deserves. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. 11 Great .338 Caliber Rifle Cartridges - Shooting Times This wonderful efficiency of the .35 calibers is especially remarkable when one considers that most all of these rounds are verging on obsolescence today. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. That 225-grain bullet has a sectional density (SD) value of 0.251, a bit light for what is normally considered to be appropriate for dangerous game. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. I rely on Roberson Cartridge Company out of Texas for projects like these, and their .350 Rigby brass is wonderfully uniform and properly headstamped. Though still under construction, Im eager to take the classic cartridge into the hunting fields. It never got up. There are places where .22 centerfires are legal for elk. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. Enough Gun: Elk Stopping Power - Petersen's Hunting Years of development and pushing the limits of what is possible in a rifle optic have led up to this moment. That year, Remington also brought out the Model 673 Guide Gun in .350 Rem Mag. The .35 (.358) caliber has never really gotten a serious toehold here, although the occasional item like the .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, or .358 Winchester roils the waters every now and again. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. I think Jack OConnor, the great champion of the .270, would agree. Normas original spec sheet for the .358 Norma Magnum when it was released in 1959 indicated the cartridges ballistics. Likewise, so do experienced western elk hunters. They can take their time and pick their shots. Sometimes you get a point-blank shot; other times you need to stretch it a bit farther. The .35 Whelen fires a larger .358 bullet and is therefore right at the cusp of being a big game caliber and is capable of handling everything except . Behind the Bullet: .350 Rigby Magnum - An Official Journal Of The NRA Theres also a mindset difference. Either way, the Newton is the unbelted twin of the .358 Norma. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. The softpoints were used for the various antelope species, dangerous cats and even buffalo, while the full-patch, non-expanding solids would be used on elephant. While most of the .35 caliber rifle cartridges are powerful medium bore numbers designed for use on large (CXP3) game like elk and moose, the most popular .35 caliber rifle cartridge is the .35 Remington. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. These are elk cartridges, and as Jack Atcheson Jr. likes to say, the .338 numbs them. I have long been something of a .35 caliber fan, but I have to admit that I believe the reason for the general lack of public acceptance of all but the least powerful .35's is, in a word, recoil. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game. Im going to rule out short-range cartridges that have the power because theres no sense in making the shot more difficult than necessary. But in those countries where the lighter cartridges are legal for the cats, the .350 Rigby Magnum is just about perfect. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. These work, but my thinking has changed over the years. The Whelen is a more sensible choice, but the Rigby isnt about sensibility, its about nostalgia and a connection to a bygone age.